EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3


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Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 01:37:00 - [1] Thorax isn't overpowered- and its dronebay isn't too big. People are just too stupid to figure out how to fight against them. It really isn't that hard.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 20:04:00 - [2] I really am having trouble pinning down where the argument is, for the thorax being overpowered. The only solid thing I reading is "the drone bay is too big, the dronebay is too big!" As if that actually stands as an argument. As has already been pointed out ad nausium, some others cruisers can use 6 heavy drones, the thorax has fewer slots and fitting problems compared to other t3 cruisers, and every other gallente ship above cruiser class has more drone bay space then the thorax. Someone kindly pointed out that tactics vs the thorax isn't a problem (in other words, it's not especially "hard" to kill a thorax when you know what your doing). So do me a favor- IN LIST FORM, lay out the argument as to exactly why the thorax is overpowered, point by point, in short and consice form (one sentence each, ect) And whoever said the drones of a thorax does BS dmg is simply full of crap. I have crap gunnery skills (seriously, nothing relevant byond lev 3), and my BS does way more damage than the most damaging heavy drones, with max skills, if we are talkling about 8 of them. And that is whithout dmg mods, and far more range (not to mention instant dmg, unlike the drones). When you add in my BS dronebay, the argument becomes even more laughable. Get out of here with that nonsense. Lying wont win you an argument.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 20:04:00 - [3] I really am having trouble pinning down where the argument is, for the thorax being overpowered. The only solid thing I reading is "the drone bay is too big, the dronebay is too big!" As if that actually stands as an argument. As has already been pointed out ad nausium, some others cruisers can use 6 heavy drones, the thorax has fewer slots and fitting problems compared to other t3 cruisers, and every other gallente ship above cruiser class has more drone bay space then the thorax. Someone kindly pointed out that tactics vs the thorax isn't a problem (in other words, it's not especially "hard" to kill a thorax when you know what your doing). So do me a favor- IN LIST FORM, lay out the argument as to exactly why the thorax is overpowered, point by point, in short and consice form (one sentence each, ect) And whoever said the drones of a thorax does BS dmg is simply full of crap. I have crap gunnery skills (seriously, nothing relevant byond lev 3), and my BS does way more damage than the most damaging heavy drones, with max skills, if we are talkling about 8 of them. And that is whithout dmg mods, and far more range (not to mention instant dmg, unlike the drones). When you add in my BS dronebay, the argument becomes even more laughable. Get out of here with that nonsense. Lying wont win you an argument.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:01:00 - [4] Edited by: Paradox Eve on 23/08/2005 22:04:35 Quote: The drones carriers can (vexor and arbitrator). The thorax is a blaster ship not a drone ship. Wrong, it is a close range, heavy damage dealer. Including both drones and blasters. Quote: It should not have more drones/better drones than the drone carrier of its race. Why? It is in a higher tier, in the drone specialist race... Quote: Especially since heavy drones track so good. Oh goody, an actual point that pertains to the argument! And here I was thinking you weren't capable of that. Ok, so drones track well, but take time to find thier target and start the damage, and they can be destroyed without destroying the ship. Quote: And because, well, the moa doesn't get more missiles hardpoint than the caracal on top of it's gun, and not "BS sized" (i.e. fittings for it, as the large drone bay is the "fitting" for heavy drones) launcher hardpoints. And as I said, the thorax doesnt get "BS fitting" on drones. The Gallente BSs all have larger dronebays. Quote: The caracal has less slots than any other cruiser, my daredevil and my caracal both have 11 slots. It isn't a t3 cruiser either. The thorax has fewer slots than every other t3 cruiser. Quote: The thorax has less slots because it has more drone... Exactly! but the drones it currently gets are FAR more valuable than the slots it doesn't have. Emphasis on the FAR. Ill agree to chopping it's dronebay then, on the condition that it is given more PG/CPU AND more slots. Quote: That is so wrong, brutix is outclassed by the thorax partly because it only has half its drone bay. The Brutix is a specialty ship, so I dont consider it a "class above". Nor do I consider a destroyer a "class above" frigs. But I can respect that. Fine, there is one ship above it with less. Quote: The deimos, based on the same hull, or even the vigilant, both upgrades of the thorax, have less drone space. They are the same class of ship. Specialty designs, variations on the thorax... you have no argument here. Quote: That's an easy one. The drones of the thorax do around 200 dps... With MAX skills (note that this is more training time then the gunnery skills listed), using the most damaging drone (also lowest speed and tracking), 8 drones do 176. Quote: ...damage output of a pre-patch torpedo raven without damage mod (not counting 6 heavy drones). Well isnt that convenient for you? Quote: A 'geddon with BS skill 3 and large energy turret 2 (surgical strike 2, rapid firing 3, gunnery 5) has, for a megapulse: rof of 5.3 sec & damage mod of 3.5. Using infrared it does 7 * 3.5 * 28 / 5.3 = 130 dps. 166 dps with ultraviolet. With no skill over 3, a megathron with 7 425mm rails with AM does over 225 DPS, with another 220 from drones, for a total of 445+. This is without dmg mods. To be honest, i think that you are insulting me (as it is clear that you are refering to what i said by the way). Not you, just the argument. The argument is retarded. Should have been clear by that fact that I neither mentioned names, nor quoted. Laugh all you want, you are the want looking silly because i proved you wrong with the actual numbers. No, you tweeked numbers for the sole purpose of making yourself look right. Try again!
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:01:00 - [5] Edited by: Paradox Eve on 23/08/2005 22:04:35 Quote: The drones carriers can (vexor and arbitrator). The thorax is a blaster ship not a drone ship. Wrong, it is a close range, heavy damage dealer. Including both drones and blasters. Quote: It should not have more drones/better drones than the drone carrier of its race. Why? It is in a higher tier, in the drone specialist race... Quote: Especially since heavy drones track so good. Oh goody, an actual point that pertains to the argument! And here I was thinking you weren't capable of that. Ok, so drones track well, but take time to find thier target and start the damage, and they can be destroyed without destroying the ship. Quote: And because, well, the moa doesn't get more missiles hardpoint than the caracal on top of it's gun, and not "BS sized" (i.e. fittings for it, as the large drone bay is the "fitting" for heavy drones) launcher hardpoints. And as I said, the thorax doesnt get "BS fitting" on drones. The Gallente BSs all have larger dronebays. Quote: The caracal has less slots than any other cruiser, my daredevil and my caracal both have 11 slots. It isn't a t3 cruiser either. The thorax has fewer slots than every other t3 cruiser. Quote: The thorax has less slots because it has more drone... Exactly! but the drones it currently gets are FAR more valuable than the slots it doesn't have. Emphasis on the FAR. Ill agree to chopping it's dronebay then, on the condition that it is given more PG/CPU AND more slots. Quote: That is so wrong, brutix is outclassed by the thorax partly because it only has half its drone bay. The Brutix is a specialty ship, so I dont consider it a "class above". Nor do I consider a destroyer a "class above" frigs. But I can respect that. Fine, there is one ship above it with less. Quote: The deimos, based on the same hull, or even the vigilant, both upgrades of the thorax, have less drone space. They are the same class of ship. Specialty designs, variations on the thorax... you have no argument here. Quote: That's an easy one. The drones of the thorax do around 200 dps... With MAX skills (note that this is more training time then the gunnery skills listed), using the most damaging drone (also lowest speed and tracking), 8 drones do 176. Quote: ...damage output of a pre-patch torpedo raven without damage mod (not counting 6 heavy drones). Well isnt that convenient for you? Quote: A 'geddon with BS skill 3 and large energy turret 2 (surgical strike 2, rapid firing 3, gunnery 5) has, for a megapulse: rof of 5.3 sec & damage mod of 3.5. Using infrared it does 7 * 3.5 * 28 / 5.3 = 130 dps. 166 dps with ultraviolet. With no skill over 3, a megathron with 7 425mm rails with AM does over 225 DPS, with another 220 from drones, for a total of 445+. This is without dmg mods. To be honest, i think that you are insulting me (as it is clear that you are refering to what i said by the way). Not you, just the argument. The argument is retarded. Should have been clear by that fact that I neither mentioned names, nor quoted. Laugh all you want, you are the want looking silly because i proved you wrong with the actual numbers. No, you tweeked numbers for the sole purpose of making yourself look right. Try again!
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:04:00 - [6] As far as the "plate" issue goes. This is not a problem that is unique to the thorax. Oversized plates are a more general problem. They should adjuest speed of ship based on size of plate vs size of ship, like they do with AB and MWD. That a thorax may seem overpowered with oversized plates isn't a problem with the thorax- it is a problem with plates.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:04:00 - [7] As far as the "plate" issue goes. This is not a problem that is unique to the thorax. Oversized plates are a more general problem. They should adjuest speed of ship based on size of plate vs size of ship, like they do with AB and MWD. That a thorax may seem overpowered with oversized plates isn't a problem with the thorax- it is a problem with plates.

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